Devit (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
halfcocked) wrote2008-06-05 11:36 pm
halfcocked) wrote2008-06-05 11:36 pm
brainshit
<Devit> oh hay info in the anime that wasn't in the manga
<Jasdero> :O?
<Devit> I'M WATCHING THE JASDEVI FIGHT there's a bit where Rhode is randomly talking to Ticky
<Devit> "They're the Bonds which is their greatest strength but also their greatest weakness, if the Bond gets too strong they become overconfident"
<Devit> NOT THAT THAT WASN'T OBVIOUS . . . but >D
<Jasdero> oho
<Jasdero> |D
<Jasdero> that's something to think about
<Devit> Yes! I love the Bonds :<
<Devit> I really need to get ep 84 to see how they end the fight.
<Jasdero> Which episode are you on now?
<Devit> Because apparently there's another added bit where Crowley talks about how cruel humans must have been to them? I LOVE WHEN I GET CONFIRMED |D
<Jasdero> So you know, seeing these scenes again is giving me an impression that neither Devit nor Jasdero takes things seriously
<Jasdero> kind of in a childish way, kind of in a "we're good enough for anything that happens" way
<Jasdero> [rambling o/]
<Devit> YEAH they're so like. They only get serious when they're REALLY REALLY offended
<Devit> It's not even regard for their own lives or for the Earl's goals, they don't HAVE any of that really
<Devit> Who cares la la! Just DON'T FUCK WITH US D<
<Jasdero> They're more of living in the moment because that's all that really matters
<Devit> by which I mean like--not that they have no regard for their own lives, they do, but that they're so confident in their powers that they never consider themselves as being in serious danger.
<Jasdero> which makes me go on to thinking that sort of mindset effects how they view the world and how they interact with it--not actively, but the way they consider things is still there
<Jasdero> mm
<Devit> v. confident in their Noah abilities, not so much in themselves as people XD Well Devit anyway. I can't speak for Jasdero there, I think he's . . . more okay with himself.
<Devit> Possibly because he's not as socially needy ANYWAY.
<Jasdero> haha yeah XD
<Devit> but yes *nods*
<Jasdero> He doesn't think that IN DEPTH about things, I think. It's kind of, um.
<Jasdero> ...I had it but then I lost it. hold on.
<Devit> XD OKAY
<Jasdero> my attention span is wonderful
<Jasdero> RIGHT I think the way Jasdero views things is more simplistic, so it's not as heavy on him as it maybe is on Devit, you could say?
<Devit> Yeah
<Devit> His whole awareness is different
<Jasdero> The way he reacts to things is a lot more different in a sense that--he knows this and he knows that, but not on the same level Devit might think of it.
<Jasdero> Basically, yes.
<Devit> I really do think that Hoshino was doing a DELIBERATE THING THERE because the two of them, their childishness gets brought up a lot
<Devit> (this is also why Crowley is the exorcist they went up against!)
<Jasdero> or you know, think in general. it's a lot easier to get caught up in your own world (being "Jasdevi") than to think of that sort of thing, which does effect it.
<Jasdero> Ha yeah XD
<Jasdero> I also notice how Linali throws all these comments at them, but they only really react to being called brats
<Devit> And I sort of feel that Jasdero is the "child" and Devit is the "teenager" and Jasdevi is like . . . the combination, which is an incredibly cruel and terrifying thing
<Jasdero> Yeah, I kind of see it that way too
<Devit> The complexes of the teenager combined with the total self-centeredness and disregard for society/life of the child
<Devit> which is why he's so sadistic. XD HOW I SEE IT ANYWAY
<Devit> And yeah
<Jasdero> And Jasdevi is kind of. unpinnable because you don't know where he is.
<Devit> They don't react much to Rinali in general
<Jasdero> Even after she punches them they don't start bitching at her so much like they do in other places
<Jasdero> well, punches Devit, actually
<Jasdero> But he's the more vocal one, so that counts for something too
<Devit> Yeah, like, Devit pistol-whips her (I love how they don't show it in either version I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE IT HAPPENED UNTIL I SAW THE ANIME)
<Devit> but that's pretty much it
<Devit> It's ALLEN that he goes on to insult.
<Jasdero> ...oh did they
<Jasdero> he. same thing.
<Devit> Yeah. They don't show it.
<Devit> In the manga you can barely tell
<Devit> In the anime you see him lowering his gun and her looking like she's just been hit.
<Jasdero> [rewinds]
<Jasdero> oh right
<Jasdero> I always did wonder what that was
<Devit> I think it's hilarious that they don't show it XD
<Devit> OH NO, VIOLENCE IN D.GRAY!
<Jasdero> pistol-whipping women is a no-no you know
<Jasdero> FROM A NOAH, NO LESS
<Devit> PUMPING JASDEVI'S STOMACH THROUGH THE ABDOMINAL WALL WHILE HE'S CONSCIOUS IS OKAY
<Devit> BUT HITTING RINALI WITH A GUN!
<Jasdero> CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?
<Jasdero> I CAN'T STAND FOR THAT
* Devit gasps!
* Jasdero shields eyes. has been corrupted forever.
<Devit> I also think some of that has to do with Devit not--taking women seriously! at all.
* Devit apparently only apps misogynists XD
<Jasdero> Hm. How different do you think Devit and Jasdero were pre-Noah?
<Jasdero> It's something I've been tossing around a bit so I thought I'd ask \o/
<Devit> WELL LIKE. The thing is
<Devit> I'd assumed they were one human! Which MAY NOT BE TRUE and I know there's omake stuff I haven't been able to find *HAS BEEN LOOKING*
<Jasdero> aha XD
<Devit> But I'd assumed that they were one human and then became Jasdevi
<Devit> And then JASDEVI became Devit and Jasdero
<Devit> so they never were . . . two humans?
<Devit> BUT I DON'T KNOW
<Devit> It's confusing. XD
<Jasdero> That's an interesting way to look at it
<Devit> Because we know Jasdevi was one Noah but we don't know like, how that works
<Jasdero> True
<Devit> Did he split in some previous incarnation and then Devit and Jasdero were bonded by the split Noah inhabiting them o-or what XD Hoshinoooo tell usssss
<Jasdero> Previously I had assumed they had been two people made Noah, to represent the bond, and Jasdevi was to show it kind of, but if you think about it that way, I think that makes a little more sense
<Jasdero> aha XD
<Devit> It'd be REALLY INTERESTING EITHER WAY but like when I first read the series that was the assumption I made.
<Jasdero> I WILL PRAY that the chapters that are coming up now will lead to some Jasdevi exposition or something. after Hoshino gets off her crack.
<Devit> I knoooow I LOVE THE CRACK A LOT but come back Jasdevi!!
<Devit> I do think it's an interesting question
<Devit> because I think it's--the Bond would be pretty different depending on whether this is a person who's been torn in half or two people who have been pushed together.
<Jasdero> Mm
<Jasdero> It's two drastically different take on things, and can account for different things and. yes XD
<Jasdero> It's just an interesting subject
* Devit nods
<Devit> we're the best characters in the series see :<
<Devit> If you mean like
<Devit> How much did the Noah CHANGE THEM . . .
<Devit> Assuming they were two humans!
<Jasdero> Yes?
<Devit> I dunno about Jasdero. Because that's part of why I assumed that, I think, is that it's very hard for me to imagine a human that would have become Jasdero. XD (also they're never shown in white forms which I think is also interesting)
<Devit> But as far as Devit goes
<Jasdero> Yeah, I always got stuck on Jasdero XDD
<Jasdero> Devit could be that guy in school. He COULD be normal.
<Devit> I would say not much. I think the Noah would like . . . remove his killing inhibitions, make him hate humanity, you know, THE NOAH STUFF
<Devit> But as a human, if he was one
<Devit> I think he was an insecure punk
<Devit> Probably with violent tendencies ANYWAY
<Jasdero> |D
<Devit> and the Noah like . . . both made that worse and better XD
<Devit> I'M A PART OF SOMETHING NOW I HAVE POWERS I AM AWESOME
<Devit> but now I fit in even less ;;
<Devit> kill them all!!
<Jasdero> I'd think so! The Noahs are intersting in general, but the transition between human and Noah is interesting
<Devit> Yeah--I'd love to see some info on like, Rhode. I assume we'll get it eventually. Like there are characters who were DRIVEN NUTS BY IT, like Skinn
<Devit> and Ticky in his way (Ticky-mun's essayed on that)
<Jasdero> I never saw it as a DRASTIC difference, but like I think someone mentioned somewhere, it just twists a few things around and takes down those little voices that tell you things are wrong
<Jasdero> and you get a Crazy Voice but
* Devit nods
<Devit> It's possible that Jasdero was even like A NORMAL GUY who--broke a little
<Devit> But as for Devit my feeling is that he did not change much. XD
<Jasdero> Possibly because. As far as basic personality goes, I don't see things doing complete 180s (unless you count Skin's case, but I kind of see him as similar to his white form somewhat)
<Devit> Yeah
<Jasdero> If Jasdero started out as human, he was probably childish. functional, but childish.
<Jasdero> I can't really imagine it, but-- I guess, if the Noah did invade at some point then
<Devit> I also think that if it were the case it would make the Noah more sympathetic than Hoshino wants them to be (and than I want them to be)
<Jasdero> it probably broke those barriers that make a person a person
<Jasdero> aha XD
<Devit> Like there's a big difference between DEVIT WAS A SWEET NORMAL BOY UNTIL THIS HAPPENED OMG HOW TRAGIC
<Jasdero> y-yeah XD I don't think it was like that exactly
<Devit> And Devit was an asshole punk kid who takes advantage of what he became to make himself feel better. XD
<Devit> NO I DON'T THINK SO XD
<Jasdero> Noah are Noah because they're not so tragic and obviously redeemable
<Devit> that's getting into apologista fan territory which I hate XD
<Devit> Yes exactly. :< Like the Noah are . . . they are tragic, I mean, Skinn's flashback IS AWFUL. But just because the transition and the state of being a Noah is an ugly thing doesn't mean that the character isn't . . . *waves hands* XD
<Devit> there's no absolution of guilt
<Jasdero> Guilt is kind of something Noah kind of don't really do. I think the emotion/sense of it is pretty nulled.
<Devit> insofar as Devit for example is a "victim" of the Noah, he contributes to his own victimization and uses it as an excuse BECAUSE HE IS NOT A GOOD PERSON and never was
* Devit nods
<Devit> Yeah
<Devit> All of them are like . . . there are things they don't want to do but.
<Jasdero> mm
<Devit> It's because it's self-serving
<Jasdero> Yeah, Noah tend to be pretty selfish in the end
<Devit> Ticky doesn't want to leave behind his white life not because he's a good person but BECAUSE HE LIKES IT
<Jasdero> Yeah, pretty much! I really like Aviy's essays on Tyki, because it's just what he is and it's not like some Tyki RPers I've seen who make him into another Allen
<Devit> hahaha s-sob yeah. SHE IS AMAZING.
<Jasdero> Not to say Noah are all the same but-- fundamentally, they kind of work the same way
<Jasdero> she isss
<Devit> Yeah, it was funny, she commented on my essay to that effect. XD Like they're all so different and yet . . . they have some of the same drives and outlooks
<Jasdero> Aah, I saw that!
<Jasdero> Noah are kind of humane but, kind of not really.
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But it really does take a certain TYPE to be a Noah. And if you aren't that type innately it will MAKE YOU ONE. A la Skin. Who was totally a nice and sane guy until the Noah was like HERE IS HOW FUCKED UP THE WORLD IS =D I suspect the Fourteenth was the only Noah to really... escape the curse. And in part I wonder if that isn't because he might have had a part of the Noah that is less crazy (the Love? the Devotion? Something like that). I want to know more about niisan )= Because he seems like a Ticky WITHOUT any sense of emptiness and without a firm LINE between White and Black. He's clearly old enough and probably sane enough to understand how things Are and how they Should Be that he can have a human wife and rule a country and attend parties. But you know. STILL A NOAH so no regret. And I get the feeling HIS white life is more of a frivolous cover up.
And I totally essayed in your post but whatever )= I LOVE ALL THE STUFF JAZZYDAVE HAS MADE ME THINK ABOUT. Because I like NEVER drew any real connection between them and Ticky (and infact never thought about them in depth at all |D) but realizing it's THERE it like draws lines through all of them, just in their different stages of understanding, their different value systems. Jazzydave is interesting because they aren't far gone from the human part of them that WANTS friends and companionship. Where as other Noah seem to genuinely just view humanity as a whole as worthless and toys for the breaking.
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Yeah my assumption right now is that like . . . there are these 14 parts of the Noah and certain things are dictated by what part you happen to get. Skinn got the Wrath and like, WHATEVER KIND OF GUY HE WAS BEFORE, the Wrath is THE WORST ONE TO GET because it's the strongest memory and just totally mindrapes you. I mean even the other Noah are like "Yeah that poor guy, the Wrath of Noah really makes you just throw yourself at Innocence like some kind of puppet, so he died." So the other aspects seem to have degrees of being able to pick and choose their battles based on their human(ish) feelings while Wrath is just all ARGH INNOCENCE I WILL FIGHT IT TO THE DEATH! And they comment on how pathetic this is! And then there's the Earl's comment about OH LOL THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO THE PLEASURE, and Rhode's anime-comment about how the Bonds are both strong and weak, etc. So I assume that whatever memory Mana had, it was sort of inevitable that the betrayal would happen. But at the same time the human personalities of the Noah affect them too, probably to varying extents depending on how strong the memory is. Skinn like loses himself completely because Wrath is strong, but I'm guessing that Bonds is RELATIVELY WEAK, maybe the weakest we've seen so far. And Pleasure probably is too. Not like weaker powers-wise but in how much the Noah mindrapes you.
And yes :( I want more Sherril info and. ALL OF THEM, COME ON. I want to know more about this whole fake political life they have and making Ticky charm the ladies at the balls because that's just SO HILARIOUS to me. >D
It's so interesting because it's very much a NOAH DESIRE in that it's self-serving and feel-good and no the humans don't really mean anything they're all horrible mortal creatures and we'll kill them without regret or guilt! But at the same time . . . please like me :( stop being so mean we're not monsters why do you shun us! And I think that aspect of it has absolutely nothing to do with the Noah and everything to do with Devit being who he is as a person, so there is humanity there that has just been . . . twisted up.
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and
and everything to do with Devit being who he is as a person, so there is humanity there that has just been . . . twisted up.
Yeah exactly. I tend to think of the Noah as being more persuasive in general, especially with Bonds and Pleasure. With Bonds it persuades you to be KINDA CO-DEPENDANT. But it's Devit's own insecurities that lead to him relying on that dependance, but it's the Bonds that offer it up. Similarly Ticky ENJOYS what Ticky ENJOYS. This is why I don't play Ticky as an actual rapist. To Ticky Mikk rape doesn't give him any sense of power or high, it's not something he takes Pleasure from, and the Noah doesn't change that. He's just more inclined to seek it out. Now that's DIFFERENT WHEN IT COMES TO HUMANITY AS A WHOLE, AND EXORCISTS AND INNOCENCE. But generally speaking I don't think the Noah really wipes out that much. It just HANGS OUT and skews your thought process, messes with your priorities a bit, and makes your humanity vulnerable.
Like, imagine if Devit was the Pleasure instead. I don't think, initially, it would be a huge change. People in general DO seek out and enjoy themselves. Devit is A TEENAGER. The most amazing change would probably be the lack of Bonds. The priority placed on gratification over co-dependence, he could become much more capable of acting individually, even as only a half a person, because you can divide up Pleasures and MAYBE HE'D JUST HAVE HALF OF THEM like how Ticky has divided up his White and Dark. But he'd still be DEVIT. Just with a different outtake.
Similarly, if LAZY HOBO TICKY had been say, Dreams, he might have turned into more of the mysterious mad hatter sort. Still liking people, having fun, but also super powerful and In Touch with the Big Picture and thus not so driven to win individual battles or take individual lives. He would roll along in his white life, having fun, but be less attached to his friends, and more easily sidetracked with whatever is interesting.
I love the Noah because they're normal people just, dealing with a huge SKEW on the world of normal people.
And yes argh I want more Noah chapters. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED. DGM IS PRETTY MUCH THE NOAH STORY AND THE EXORCISTS ARE JUST THERE TO MOVE THINGS ALONG. IS THAT BAD? )=
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Man I never really thought before about how things would be different if they got different memories. IT'S FASCINATING and I think it'd be a really interesting AU/thing to explore. dreams!Ticky in particular I think is a REALLY INTERESTING IDEA. See it's times like this that I wish people actually did this AUs and decently in places like the dressing room instead of like "WHAT IF ALLEN WERE A WAITRESS/HOOKER WHO TURNS INTO A CAT AT NIGHT?"
AND THAT'S NOT BAD. THAT'S EXACTLY HOW I LOOK AT IT TOO 8( This is why we play Noah man.
Also I wanted to mention that Devit is going to kick Ticky in the shins the next time he sees him >/
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And why are you going to kick me.
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NO REASON, DON'T QUESTION EVERY LITTLE THING, HOBO (http://community.livejournal.com/campfuckudie/4479408.html?thread=1562076336#t1562076336)
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. . .
. . . no